BackDraft
Two guys talk about recent NBA and NFL drafts, with some light humor and current events thrown in for good measure.
BackDraft
BackDraft Episode 1 - 2017 NFL Draft
In the inaugural episode, Chris Bengel and Ryan Struve dive deep into the 2017 NFL Draft, which took place in Philadelphia. They touch on the biggest stars, busts, underrated players, and undrafted free agents from a very intriguing draft year. Was the 2017 NFL Draft one of the better drafts that we've seen in recent memory? The guys break everything down and give their thoughts on how it stacks up eight years later.
What's going on, Draft Junkies? Chris Bangle here. I'm joined by my co-host, Ryan Struve, and welcome to the Back Draft Podcast, where we dive into draft classes of the past in the NFL and NBA. With the intro episode out of the way, this is episode number one, and we're going to dive into the 2017 NFL draft, which was a very interesting one. Some big star power going at the top of the draft, and you know, a lot of mediocrity in between. So we're going to dive into you know kind of what the 2017 draft brought. Like I said, very interesting one. The 2017 draft took place in Philadelphia, and I myself actually attended the 2017 NFL draft. And you know, it was definitely a fun experience. You got to see the Super Bowl trop or the Lombardi trophy on display. Um, each team Super Bowl brings from the past were there, so that was you know kind of a cool thing for fans to experience. And you know, the crowning highlight of the of that day and maybe the weekend, as far as you know, crazy Philly fans are concerned, is Cowboys Legend Drew Pearson comes up to announce the Cowboys' second-round pick and got booed into oblivion, uh, you know, ultimate troll job. And you know, it was a lot of fun to watch that. And you know, Philly versus Dallas is the ultimate rivalry. So, you know, seeing him get the business was absolutely hilarious.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, I've never I've never attended a a draft, Chris. Uh this is your your co-host Ryan. Um, is that a big money grab by the NFL? Are they charging you know$20 for beers and and packing people in?
SPEAKER_01:They're definitely packing them in. Um, I don't know if it's still this way because that's the only time I've ever gone. But you if you want to get in like the there's a seated area, you have to win tickets. Um, I believe they're free, but you have to enter a lottery, and you know, obviously really hard to get picked because they're only picking, you know, I don't know what the amount is, but I would say it's probably maybe a thousand people, something like that. It's not a ton. Um, and then you can kind of stand behind that, which is what I did. Um I I don't even remember what the concessions really were. I know um it was by the Philadelphia Art Museum, so kind of near the Fairmont Park area for those that are you know familiar with Philadelphia. Um, I actually just went to a restaurant beforehand and got food because I figured it would be kind of insane. I don't remember the pricing, but I'm sure it was quite the money grab because it's the NFL.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this is the first first draft that was held outdoors, actually. Um, which I think was a really good move on the NFL's part uh to try and include more fans instead of having you know 20,000 fans in a in an auditorium or or what happened. Right in New York.
SPEAKER_01:It was always a radio city, I think, for the most part.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, which is probably not even 20,000, it's probably 5,000 fans or something. They had like a quarter million people there, which is crazy.
SPEAKER_01:No, I think uh moving it outdoors, I think, was definitely the right move. I mean, we've seen it in you know Detroit, um, Chicago, like all these iconic football cities, and then uh this coming year gonna be in Pittsburgh, that's gonna be a lot of fun. Obviously, you know, we have you know an interest from that standpoint being you know a Steelers and Eagles family. That's that's gonna be fun to see those fans taking the draft, and I think that's gonna be absolutely packed. Uh, so that'll that'll be interesting this year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Pittsburgh always travels well to other stadiums, and I'm I'm sure they're gonna pack their own um as well for the draft. Uh before we hop into into the 2017 uh draft, looking at some some of the hot news in the NFL, you know, we don't need to break down box scores or anything, but you know, what do you make of this uh Jamar Chase, Jalen Ramsey situation?
SPEAKER_01:I I just I don't know why we're why this happens so frequently. I mean, this is what this second or third time this has happened this year. Uh happened with Jalen Carter earlier in the year at an Eagles Cowboys game. Uh Carter ends up getting tossed um after you know not even the first play from scrimmage. And then it happens this past weekend. Jamar Chase gets into a Jalen Ramsey, and with the amount of video that's out there now, like you have these 4K cameras and everything in between, like there's foam, there's everything everywhere. You're not gonna you can't say that you didn't do it when it was blatantly seen that Jamar Chase clearly spit in Ramsey's face, and then you know Ramsey, you know, punches him, gets tossed, you know, probably a fair reaction, I would say. Most players are probably gonna react that same way, and you know, but then after the game, Chase Up and Down denies it. And you know, once the video kind of came out, there was you know, there's no reason to keep denying it. You you did what you did. He gets a one-game suspension, which he plans to appeal, it sounds like, and you know, I'm assuming it's probably gonna be upheld, but it just I don't know why we're doing this, and you know, in this day and age, like why do you have to I feel like it's so disrespectful to spit on somebody. Like if you're gonna, you know, shove somebody, whatever, like grab them by the face, mask, what have you, like not a big deal, but I feel like it's extremely disrespectful to spit in someone's face, and you know, it it just happens way too often.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I my my insert my interest in this is is one um players always respond by hitting the other one in the helmet, which I always find an interesting decision. Absolutely uh given that they're wearing you know a helmet that's a that's designed to withstand another helmet hitting it. Um what damage is their own hand to try to try to hit them. I I I if if I were in that circumstance, I would think I would be motivated if I were gonna respond physically at all, and I would hope that I wouldn't, but if I was, uh I'd try to rip their helmet off their head. Like I would grab the face mask and try to rip it off their off their head. Um then if you're gonna take a swing, fine, but and then you know from Jamar Chase's standpoint, um what what's what's the deal with spitting on people? Like I'm I'm for I just turned 46 years old this past weekend, and uh I have a decent memory of my life, and and I can't remember a single time in my entire life when I've been motivated and thought to myself, you know, I should really spit on this person because I'm so mad at them. Um physical violence as a as a child or what have you, or yelling, or whatever. Like I I can understand those emotions, but where does the where's the motivation to spit on somebody, Chris?
SPEAKER_01:I I don't understand. It just it it really boggles my mind. These are the guys playing the most like macho sport in the world, and you know, your first thought is when you're getting into it with somebody, hey, I'm gonna spit on this guy. Like that's that's really you know gonna send a message. Like, just why are we doing that? I I I I don't think I've ever had the inclination to do that to another human either, but clearly, you know, it happens what happened. Um I feel like the most notorious one was Bill Romanowski. Sure. Uh was that late 90s, early 2000s, uh, on JJ Stokes. That was a I feel like that's the most iconic one I can remember. And you know, even you know, any time in history, like why why do we need to do this? I just uh I will never understand it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and the the motivation just doesn't make sense to me. Um especially when you're when you're losing the game, uh which I believe the Bengals were at the time when Jim.
SPEAKER_01:They definitely were. It's pretty late in the game, right? Yeah, it was early fourth quarter, I want to say, late third quarter, something like that. I mean, it was definitely you know, Steelers had a fairly decent lead at that point, and then it kind of got off the rails from there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But uh, you know, again, just makes no sense, never will, and I don't get it.
SPEAKER_00:Other piece of uh of NFL discussion, he didn't play this past weekend um because he had a bye, but Jonathan Taylor has just been on an absolute monster tear this entire season. I think he's got five three touchdown games. Um I don't know how many total touchdowns he has now. Um, if if Jonathan Taylor continues on this run and you know scores another three or four three touchdown games, uh, and the Colts you know go on to go 13 and 4 or something and win their division. Do you see any route to Jonathan Taylor getting any NVP votes at the end of the year?
SPEAKER_01:I think there's like I said, it's um going back to it, you you always look at it, it's all it always seems to be a quarterback award, which you know, obviously quarterback the most important position in the sport. Not surprising that those guys always get you know the bulk of the votes, and traditionally, you know, that's where the award is won. Um 2012 was the last time that a running back has won the award when Adrian Peterson won it. Uh, and then before that was uh we saw in 2005 and 2006 Sean Alexander and Lithanian Tomlinson winning it back-to-back years. Uh, but you know, it's super rare. It's always a quarterback award. But I think with Taylor, I mean, the run that he's been on is absolutely insane. Having the multiple three TD games, and you know, obviously, if anybody has him in fantasy, I don't know if anybody on this podcast does, but uh they've been pretty happy with his performance, I would say, this year.
SPEAKER_00:Um Chris and I are in a uh Friends and Family League, and I've got Jonathan Taylor and have been enjoying that.
SPEAKER_01:Without question. Um, but he's the way he's you know having these multi-touchdown games and just ripping off these ridiculous runs, if he can get, you know, maybe even just the you know, another two touchdown game or two, um, and you know, keep these piling on the yardage tallies, I think I think there's a chance he he'll get some votes. I think he'll get some people that writers may vote for him. Um I still think it's such a hard award to win for a running back for anyone but a quarterback, really. Um, you know, at the moment, I think uh Drake may, I think, is the odds on Leaner at the moment, uh, having a big year for the Patriots. Um I think I definitely think there's a chance, but uh it's definitely an uphill battle for him to actually win the award. He would have to go, I think, even more nuclear in you know the rest of the season to in order to win the award.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean say Saquon Barkley had um an historic season last year, you know, 2,000 yards. He didn't have as many touchdowns as Taylor's scoring, but um he got some votes. He got zero first place votes, though. Um he did get some second and third place votes and finished third in the MVP voting. So I would assume Taylor would get some uh number of votes.
SPEAKER_01:Keeps up this pace. I I don't think I'd be hard pressed to think that you know at least a couple voters wouldn't vote his way. And I mean that's a good point with Saquon. He you know nearly beat Eric Dickerson's record. If he plays that, doesn't sit out the final game, he probably breaks it, and even still, you know, doesn't get any first place votes, and I think that's really all you need to know. You know, Taylor's probably not winning the award um unless he goes, you know, has you know three, five touchdown games or something absolutely crazy. I think otherwise you're you're not gonna see see him get more than a couple votes, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think you would need a a situation where the Patriots fell off significantly, and there was like no clear front runner on the quarterback side. Um But any anyway, I I think that's an interesting story, interesting to think about. Um given that you know he he's had seasons like this in the past. I mean, this is better than his previous best season, but um he's sort of come back to to sort of crush it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I just uh like I said, I just I I don't see it. I think Drake May would have to fall off. I think you know Josh Allen potentially an outside chance if you know he ramped it up in the final weeks. And um, but I think it does look like it's May's award to lose at this point, especially if they finish strong, and I don't think their schedule's overwhelmingly difficult. So I guess that Taylor probably isn't gonna get there, but it's still, you know, historically it's just it just doesn't happen very often. So you know, it is cool to kind of dive into that and see, you know, how few times that a running back has won it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we went through this a little bit last year with Miles Garrett. I remember he was having just an insane season defensively last year, and I can't remember if he got injured or kind of tailed off towards the end of the season and ultimately didn't end up getting any votes, but there was some chatter in the middle of that season that maybe he should win the MVP. Obviously, the difference is that the Browns were terrible last year.
SPEAKER_01:And so Yeah, because the Browns were, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Hard to win the MVP on a losing team.
SPEAKER_01:No. And even still, I mean, you know, you put Miles Garrett on, you know, I don't know, the Eagles or the Bills or something, like even stand a better chance if he has that kind of historic season, like if he got to 20 sacks or something like that. But I mean, seeing a defensive player win and win that award is just it's even crazier than a running back. It just likely isn't gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. Alright, so if we jump into the 2017 draft, I don't know if if you want to set the scene for us, Chris. You know, what's the the what was the vibe heading into this 2017 draft?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, um, I think this is one of the years where, you know, we kind of knew who the number one pick was probably gonna be. Uh Miles Garrett was, who ironically we were just talking about, had was an amazing star at Texas AM, kind of was heralded as the quote unquote number one pick. There really wasn't anyone after that that was probably gonna go in that spot. Uh so leading throughout the process, Garrett was the guy and you know, was viewed as the guy that the Browns were probably gonna take in that spot. Um, I think that you know it wasn't a huge surprise. Sometimes you have the lead up to the draft, you know, in the days leading up to it, you just don't know who's gonna go number one, you know, whether a team needs a quarterback, whether they're gonna trade down. But I think in this spot with the Browns needing that defensive help, they weren't gonna trade out of that spot and were more than happy to take Garrett. And obviously, you know, all these years later, still is a force in Cleveland. Um 117 and a half career sacks, you know, uh, which is the fourth most among active players. He's you know, only behind Von Miller, Cam Jordan, um some of those guys that have been doing it for a minute, and you know, he is as dominant as it gets. And you know, I think at the number one pick, you know, that's really all you can ask for as far as what he's done.
SPEAKER_00:Why do you think the Browns didn't go with a quarterback in that at the top of that draft? Like they obviously needed a lot of help, and their quarterback the previous year was Cody Kessler.
SPEAKER_01:Um that's a blast from the past.
SPEAKER_00:Right, exactly. Who isn't exactly great. Um, they had Terrell Pryor on their team as well at the time, who was a sort of quasi quarterback. I'm I'm I'm surprised that they didn't uh they didn't at least shoot at one of these quarterbacks.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean it seemed like for the most part this quarterback class wasn't wasn't super intriguing. I mean, obviously there was one big name, which we'll get to later, that you know, ended up saving the class, but um the Browns ultimately do pass on getting a quarterback and then end up with Deshaun Kaiser in the second round, I believe it was, and was you know basically continued the trend of the Browns drafting attractions quarterbacks. The the list is probably one of the more noteworthy ones the teams have had. You had Tim Couch. Um back in the year, Donovan McNabb was drafted, Brandon Wheaton, like you said, Kimberly.
SPEAKER_00:There's a great list, uh a great image somewhere. There's a fan of of Cleveland that um has a jersey and puts the name of all their starting quarterbacks on the back of the jersey. And it's like almost filmed now, where they they run through all of these just terrible quarterbacks that the Browns have had over the years. Um I don't know exactly how far back it goes, but yeah, all these guys are on there.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, they haven't, you know. I mean, the only one that was probably worth anything was you know, Baker Mayfield, and obviously also not there anymore, and kind of fizzled out in Cleveland, and then has had success, you know, going elsewhere to the Bucks. But besides that, like the list is just absolutely terrible. I I don't probably hard pressed to find a team that has drafted the quarterback more terrible than the Browns have over the years. But totally agree.
SPEAKER_00:Who are our other stars from this draft?
SPEAKER_01:Um, I would say, you know, you know, the top ten, there were there were some questionable picks, but there were also a few absolute home runs. Uh Carolina Panthers knocked it out of the park with Christian McCaffrey. Uh the overall pick, you know, once once he he came to the league, Panthers still had Jonathan Stewart at that time. Uh it was still pretty productive.
SPEAKER_00:You know, getting older.
SPEAKER_01:What's that?
SPEAKER_00:He was a good back, Jonathan Stewart.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, he's a great back when they had um, who's the other one they had? Um two punch. D'Andrew Williams was the other one. They had a pretty good one-two punch for I don't know how many years. Um you know, McCaffrey is you know proven to be probably the most versatile back in the league. Um, you know, just as dangerous through the air as he is on the ground. And, you know, even you know, being in San Francisco now, he had a lot of great premieres with the Panthers, um, you know, rushed for a thousand yards in four different seasons, and just absolute stud in every sense of the word. Uh, Panthers, you know, absolutely hit a home run here, and you I mean be hard pressed to say anything negative about this pick. It's you know, for at eight overall, you can't hope for more than a star.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he was pretty much locked into the Panthers heading into that draft. Like, on if you look at Mel Kuper's board or other pre-draft prediction boards, like everybody thought everybody thought Jacksonville was going to take Fournette, and then everybody thought that the Panthers were gonna take Christian McCaffrey. And he did kind of do everything for Stanford. I mean, he did kick returns and punt returns and you know, a lot of receiving yards for uh a running back.
SPEAKER_01:And even with you know, you know, having you know injury concerns the last like a few years, obviously this year back to form, which is awesome to see. Um, but you know, you look at Leonard Fournette in a couple years where he was great and then tailed off, you know, in a big way, had a little bit of time with the Bucks, but you know, really didn't live up to that that draft spot. And McCaffrey, you know, far and away, obviously the best running back in this draft. I don't think it's particularly close. Um but you know, you you really over 7,000 career yards, just he does he does everything that you could ask for. And you mentioned he did it at Stanford and has still continued to do it at the NFL level, and you know, basically is the 49ers offense this year. If you take him, you know, if he was out again this year, they would be literally atrocious.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. And then obviously there's the big pick at number 10.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh Patrick Mahomes. You know, I I don't think anyone thought that's what the Chiefs were getting when they took him at number 10. Um, don't want to say necessarily a project pick, but he was not, you know, obviously was not the top quarterback selected in this draft, and you know, has surpassed that in you know every possible sense. Um at the time, Kansas City had Alex Smith and was still, you know, in the prime of his career and still playing well. Uh so Mahomes didn't play a ton in 2017 as rookie year, but by 2018, you know, was burst onto the scene, over 5,000 passing yards, 50 touchdowns, and you know, since has done it all. Three Super Bowls, three Super Bowl MVPs.
SPEAKER_00:You I knew that the Chiefs had traded up for that pick, and I didn't realize until doing a deeper dive, and I think this is um a really interesting tidbit, is that they they got this pick from Buffalo. Um they they traded uh they traded their first and third that year, which they had a late first um as well as a late third, and then they they traded a first in 2018 to move up a bunch of. So I mean they moved up 17 spots. But um given the rivalry between the Chiefs and the Bills since they got Patrick Mahomes, um, since the Chiefs got Patrick Mahomes, I think that's just an extra little piece of the story that's so uh interesting that Buffalo was the one that gave them this pick.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that I think that's definitely forgotten about. And I mean, it's super interesting considering that the battles that Mahomes and Josh Allen have had in recent years. I mean, that every game seems to be a classic, especially when it comes to the playoffs, and you know, obviously the Chiefs more often than not have gotten the better of them. So it is interesting, you know, imagining you know, maybe Mahomes is in Buffalo if they you know keep that pick, and you know, who who knows what could happen, but it's just super interesting to see that um you know this three-time Super Bowl MVP, you know, you know, wasn't wasn't a player that Kansas City would have gotten otherwise. So I definitely think that's super intriguing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and like you said, Mahomes was I don't know if he was exactly a project, but I think he was definitely a gunslinger. Like people really thought he he had a big arm at Texas Tech. He had some huge games, like he has some like 700 yard games or 600 yard games.
SPEAKER_01:They had the um him and Baker Mayfield went toe to toe when Oklahoma and Texas Tech played, I forget every year, what year it was of his career, but like both quarterbacks threw for like over 700 yards, and like it's like a combined like 15 touchdowns, or like you know, Madden type stuff, like just absolutely crazy.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, I think that I think people thought that you know he didn't necessarily because the Texas Texas Tech wasn't that good. No. Um the their record was like six and seven with them, or um like you know, five and eight, or I think they went, I think they went to a bowl a couple of those years. Um, but but he wasn't like powering them into the top ten of the national rankings or something.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's also interesting because like the Big 12 is notorious for those like kind of spread offenses where they're just you know throwing it around the yard and you know, not a ton of defenses being played, they're always out of the shotgun, you know, always have those four wide receiver sets, and you know, sometimes you don't know what you're gonna get if you know a quarterback is playing in an NFL offense. And I think you know, with if you're throwing seven, eight touchdowns in a game, like that's absolutely crazy. And you know, is that gonna translate to the NFL? Like, you just don't always know.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. And you know, there were a lot of other good picks in this in this first round. I think it was overall a pretty strong first round. Um, you know, Marshawn Lattimore went 11th, who was uh you know a really good player. Deshaun Watson until he derailed his life was uh a pretty good player. Marlon Ingram and Trebavius White and David Njoku, like those are all good players, and then the Steelers popped TJ Watt at number 30, which is absolute steal at 30th overall. Yeah, I I don't remember at the time, was he injured or something coming into that into that draft? Like I think there were some concerns.
SPEAKER_01:I don't remember offhand, um, but he was I mean, the slide almost out of the first round, and you know, kind of that I mean, was there a better landing spot than Pittsburgh? Probably not. I mean, that really obviously suits a skill set, and you know having those huge pass rushers is something Steelers have you know thrived with over the years. Um but you know, uh I just think that when you're when you could secure that type of steal at 30, I mean, I feel like that's insane. Um, you know. I don't remember.
SPEAKER_00:Especially when the Steelers were already good, like they were picking towards the towards the end of the draft.
SPEAKER_01:Right, yeah. And same thing. I mean, he's I mean, you know, this draft first round produces two of the two generational pass rushers with him and Garrett, um, you know, both in top five among active players in sacks, just absolute studs. Few players get after the quarterback like TJ Watt, just an absolute you know, strip stack machine, and you know it it's hard to imagine a better fit for the Steelers that they got with this pick.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I I think it's um one thing that struck me. I don't I don't know, this is totally random and totally off base. There are actually four players in the first round this year that have food-related names. I don't know if you realize that or not.
SPEAKER_01:Taco Charlton.
SPEAKER_00:Taco Charlton. You have OJ Howard, Jabril Peppers, uh, Jabril Peppers, and Ruben Foster.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, Ruben Foster, yeah. It doesn't like a nice Ruben.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's probably an NFL record for four food-related names.
SPEAKER_01:No, that's amazing. I I didn't I had not thought of that, but that is that's an amazing tidbit. That's the kind of hard-hitting info that the people are here for.
SPEAKER_00:That just jumped off the page to me when I saw That's hilarious. I saw Taco Charlton and Ruben Foster like real close to each other. So then I went through the other the rest of the list. I'm like, wow, there's a lot of food-related names here. Any other any other big stars you want to talk about from this draft?
SPEAKER_01:Um not particularly. Um obviously, you know, later in the draft, you never know what you're gonna hit. Um Alvin Kamara ends up going to the Saints at uh pick 67 in the third round. A pretty, you know, pretty great career and you know, played all the with the Saints and is you know obviously one of the top running backs that came out of this class. Um, you we definitely have some some underrated guys. George Kittle being a fifth round pick, I think, is maybe the most interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's probably the pick of the draft, honestly. I mean, he's we'll talk about him more when we talk about sort of underrated players later, but he's probably a Hall of Famer.
SPEAKER_01:I think as far as far as the first round goes, I think, you know, those four guys that we mentioned are you know definitely the cream of the craft. There were some, you know, like we said, some other guys that were productive and have had good careers, but no one kind of on the on that Mahomes and Garrett and all those guys on that same level.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. Well who are the who are the busts then? Because there were some real busts in this first round as well.
SPEAKER_01:There was a couple bad ones. Um I mean after Garrett goes, I think Mitch Trubisky at two, considering that the Bears traded up one spot. I don't I don't remember who San Francisco had at quarterback. Like were they gonna take a quarterback?
SPEAKER_00:No, they they were not gonna take a quarterback. Um like why did you feel the need to they gave up Colin Kaepernick as quarterback?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, still, you know, fine at that point. And they gave up their first, their third, their fourth, and a third the following year just to move up one spot for you know with a team that wasn't gonna take Mitch Trubisky. And you know, Trubisky wasn't terrible. I mean, we're not talking about like a Ryan Lee, Jamarcus Russell absolute, you know, train wreck of a bust. But, you know, did live up to what the draft position was, I think. Um, you know.
SPEAKER_00:I think the Bears caught a lot of heat for giving up that much capital to move.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think if they don't trade up, I don't think they would have I don't think it would be considered as egregious. I mean, still obviously wasn't a great pick, but uh like, yeah, I agree. I don't think they would have caught as much flack for for that if they weren't giving up you know four picks or whatever it was. Um for a guy that didn't have a ton of experience, he only had 13 career starts at North Carolina before he was drafted, like uh just I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like he sat behind another another player. I always think it's interesting when when players have to sit um behind you know relatively low-level quarterbacks.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it's where I mean it's definitely really telling. I mean, if you're if you're that good, you're obviously gonna pop off at some point, and that just you know, never really happened for him, you know, until late in his career. Um and it's not like they had anyone great, like Marquise Williams was their quarterback in 2015.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Like not even like name sounds maybe vaguely familiar, but like I don't, you know, he was a multi-year starter, and so I guess you know, they're just kind of rolling with what was comfortable, and then once Trubisky takes over, like did fine and obviously did enough to get himself drafted in the top three, which is you know impressive, but you know, had the time with the Bears, and you know, was quarterback a little bit for the Steelers, and has had two stints with the Bills, but nothing, you know, never was like earth shattering by any means, just the epitome of like a veteran, you know, average backup.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he's like he's he's a he's a decent backup. Um uh had some decent games with with a few of those teams. I wonder if we'll see that as a trend as we go through more of these drafts that you know quarterbacks that kind of jump off the page with one great year if they end up being terrible, as opposed to you know, Patrick Mahomes is a three-year starter at Texas Tech. Um Deshaun Watson was a multi-year starter at Clemson, won a national championship.
SPEAKER_01:Um but then you have guys like when you know Cam Cam Newton at Auburn like one had one big year and you know enough to get drafted high, and um you know, and obviously had uh ended up having a good pretty good career, was certainly not a bust by any means. And you know, I think it's definitely something that I'll interested to learn as we go through more of these over the years.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I think the the the other big set of busts to talk about are these wide receivers that were taken at the top of this first round. And there were three, I mean, uh they had them in different orders depending on who you looked at at the time in terms of like draft rankings. I think the consensus best wide receiver with Mike Williams um uh coming out of Clemson, I think. Um but you know, he was selected seventh by the Chargers, Corey Davis was selected fifth by the Titans, and John Ross was selected by the Cincinnati Bengals at number nine. And um, those picks were all made at the time, like nobody jumped up to get those picks. The Titans pick was a trade, but it was a pre-draft trade. Um so you know what what's the deal with these three wide receivers?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, definitely was one of the more lackluster wide receiver classes that we've seen. Um, you know, Corey Davis at five, did he have the career that obviously the Titans would have hoped for? No. But at the same time, I don't think it's you know, it's not an all-time bus territory like he, you know, never had a thousand yard seasons, but he had over, you know, 800 yards twice in his seven seasons, which not, you know, not amazing by any stretch, but also not bordering on like you know John Ross territory, for example. You know, he had the fastest 40 time at the combine that year, running a 4.22, which was a record at that time until uh Xavier Worthy broke it a couple years later. Um, but you know, his entire career, he didn't even have a thousand yards, 963 yards, 63 catches, and 11 touchdowns. Like never more than 500 yards in a season. I think he had like 506 or whatever it was the one year, but like just did not jump off the page at all.
SPEAKER_00:The speed didn't translate. And I think if historically, if you look at those speed guys like Darius Hayward Bay and those other like speed guys that get picked at the top of the first round, like they almost never pan out.
SPEAKER_01:No, it it it is an interesting trend that the speed, like if that's all they bring to the table, not you know, necessarily a guy on the doesn't have necessarily a bigger frame, you know, doesn't seem to do as well. Like there was all those years that like you mentioned, Hayward Bay, Al Davis would just take whoever the fastest 40 time was at wide receiver and say, hey, like he's gonna translate and be a stud. Or yeah, you know, there is Hayward Bay.
SPEAKER_00:He was the third one, yeah. Okay career, but not deserving of the number seven pick.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely not.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, you know, a thousand yards once, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was solid for them, and even you know, in his later years as kind of a secondary receiver, um spent some time with the Steelers and was you know was fine, but definitely more productive than Ross was. He just absolutely I think I think I'd view Ross as kind of he is the true bust of this wide receiver group. I think you know, Corey Davis, like I said, was at least produced some solid campaigns. Ross never gave Cincinnati or the Jets or or Giants rather. Um and then I think he had a cup of coffee with the Eagles last year, I think, was with them in camp, but didn't really uh play very much. But I think that uh Ross is by far the most egregious pick out of this group. I think at least, you know, obviously Mike Williams was who he just retired, I believe, last year, right? I think if I remember correctly. Yeah, I think that's correct.
SPEAKER_00:And people hated the John Ross pick after it was made as well. Um Corey Davis going fifth, it's it's I believe the highest um and it wasn't the highest Mac player ever taken. He went to Western Michigan. It's interesting he didn't go to a power conference. I wonder if we'll see that as kind of a trend. Like the the bust skill players that I mean he had these eye-popping numbers at Western Michigan, right? He had like you know these 1,400, 1,500 yard years because he was playing against guys that were probably walk-ons or um you know three-star recruits or something. Uh I wonder if we'll see that going forward, that the busts tend to come from these small schools that make it all the way up to the top of the draft.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's definitely interesting. I think you know, you you don't know if the talent's gonna always translate. Like, you know, Carson Wentz goes to North Dakota State and you know does have some success with the Eagles and obviously is still hanging around in the league, so he's got to be doing something right. Um, you know, over the long haul maybe wasn't the you know kind of superstar that they thought, but you know, Josh Allen goes to Wyoming and all these smaller schools, you know, it is hit or miss, I guess, when you don't really know what you're gonna get when they're playing against you know kind of inferior competition.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, I I suspect that going forward, I mean, this is back in 2017 when the transfer rules were still harsh. Um if you were in college and you wanted to transfer back then, you had to sit out a year typically, unless there was some intervening event that allowed you to play the next year, like a coaching change or something. You had to sit out a full year if you wanted to transfer. And so nobody transferred, or hardly anybody ever transferred. Um now it's like free agency.
SPEAKER_01:And so it's a wild, it's absolutely the wild west.
SPEAKER_00:Like if you go to Western Michigan and you put up 1,500 yards, like you're gonna transfer to a big a big power company.
SPEAKER_01:We're gonna go to you know Ohio State or you know, USC or some kind of big time program. That's yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I suspect that that's not gonna happen going forward. Um, you'd have to be some kind of crazy loyal uh athlete that really, really wanted to play at Western Michigan or or Boise or whatever, like with Ash and Genti at Boise. Like he could have transferred somewhere else and and chose not to. Um another bust I would I would just highlight in this first round, it's a little bit later in the first round. It's uh the number 19 pick, O.J. Howard. Um, you know, he if you look back at his numbers, he did not have exactly eye-popping numbers at Alabama when he was uh when he was playing there. And the Bucs were picking at that pick, which uh you know they were the number 19 pick, which means they had a good team, but not a great team. They really needed to move forward, like taking a tight end there. He was supposed to be you know like a monster. He had you know he was 250 pounds and but ran like a four-five at the combine. Um he won a ring with the Bucs, actually, uh when Tom Brady was there. Um but just he did his four years at um uh at the Bucs. Maybe his fifth player option, fifth year option was picked up, I'm not sure. And he just kind of disappeared off the face of the earth. And I I just I feel like that's probably a uh a bust from uh you know a mid-first round pick.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think he was one that elevated a stock based on um you know both of those years, 2016 and the 2017 national championship. Like he had big-time performances on in both of those spots, and I think you know, anytime you're gonna thrive like that on the big stage, like they played Clemson in both of those years. Obviously, at that time that was a big time matchup between those two schools, and um you know, 2016 national championship, he had five catches for 208 yards and two touchdowns. I mean, that's you know pretty convincing. And then the following year, four for 106 and a touchdown. So dominating on that big stage. I mean, not that you're basing it off of two games, but if you're gonna thrive against the best competition that the college world has to offer, I think that's gonna count for something and probably did help boost his draft stock a lot. And you know, he was kind of described as being this uber athletic, you know, tight end, and you know, he was fine, but you know, just nothing, it didn't translate, I don't think, the way that anybody thought it would. Like only had more than 500 yards in one season. Like, you know, had a handful of touchdowns, but nothing, you know, that really moved the needle, and then, like you said, just literally fell off the face of the earth and you know, was out of the league by 2022. So I think even though he wasn't super high, that's definitely that's definitely in the bus territory.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean he has kind of the frame and measurables of like Brock Bowers, but just I don't know if his hands just weren't as good or he wasn't as crisp of a route runner because he's humongous and fast. So it just it didn't translate. Um, what were some underrated players in this draft if you look kind of later down into the rounds? Who do you like?
SPEAKER_01:Um, I would say I mentioned Kamara is a good one uh going in the third round out of Tennessee is you know obviously carved up a great career. Um one of the most intriguing, I think, is ironically, two picks later, uh at 69th overall, the Rams grabbed Cooper Cup out of eastern Washington, who I don't think anybody really knows anything about Eastern Washington or you know, expected them to you know churn out this you know great wide receiver who you know maybe has you know fallen off a little bit in terms of injuries the last few years, but I mean in terms of just reception machine, Cooper Cup has been the definition of consistency um when he was with the Rams, and obviously not with the Seahawks, not you know, not off to as hot of a start, especially with uh JSN thriving there, but I think you know, gotta almost think that Cooper Cup's probably one of the steals of this draft.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean he was on pace to be he was on pace to be uh a Hall of Famer. I don't think he's gonna get there now, but still a very good, very good wide receiver. And if you look just a little bit later into the third round, Trey Hendrickson was picked at 103 by the Saints. And you know, he was kind of under the radar for the first couple of years in the league. I don't know if the Saints just didn't run a scheme that worked well for him. Then in his fourth year, because obviously he's a third-round pick, so no fifth-year option. And that fourth year, he just exploded and then signed with the um with the Bengals and has been one of the best defensive linemen or linebackers in the league since.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's that's definitely. Um he's definitely thrived, I think, certainly more since he's gotten the Cincinnati led the league in sacks, I believe.
SPEAKER_00:If it was last year, the year before, but um, you know, famously held out before this season because he wanted more money. Um Bengals are notoriously cheap.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, we've seen we've we've saw that quite a bit with him and the um who was that the first round pick that they had last year, Shamar Stewart was you know into the past training camp and like almost to the regular season before they finally came to terms on a deal. Um but I think past Hendrickson, you know, Steelers took James Conner at pick 105, a pretty you know ended up being a great pick for them. Uh the year Le'Veon Bell ended up holding out, James Conner you know kind of took the reins and was able to you know kind of burst onto the scene there. Uh census ended up with the Cardinals and still continues to be productive, not you know earth-shattering athleticism or anything like that, but just a solid back that you know is great to have on your team, and you know all the things that he's overcome, um, you know, having uh cancer in college when he was at Pitt, and you know to have this you know impressive career, um, I think that's definitely one of the biggest values and one of the more underrated players of this draft.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and we talked about George Kittle earlier, who was probably the number one steal of this draft, um, getting a likely Hall of Famer in the fifth round is kind of unheard of. The the Bengals drafted your boy Jake Elliott, who's been a great kicker for the Eagles for a long time. What are your thoughts? If you're if you're a fan of the Bengals, do you like them using a draft pick for a kicker?
SPEAKER_01:I I feel like you have to know that the kicker is just like he's gonna pop and he's gonna be great because you know you have uh what was that old? I think it was the one year the Bucks used a I say it was a second round pick on um a kicker. Yeah, it was like it was a second or a third rounder. I mean, I know like Sebastian Janikowski back in the day went in the first round, which obviously is you know completely unheard of, but you know, you get like one or two kickers drafted a year, so usually I just it's hard to prioritize a kicker because if you have a guy like Elliot who was you know later in the draft and didn't even end up sticking with the Bengals, ends up you know having a great career with the Eagles, and you kind of see that all the time where guys are undrafted and just get maybe they bounce around to a couple teams and then you know kind of find their niche, find you know where they're most comfortable and you know have a solid career. So I feel like you it's definitely not a position you need to draft, especially not in like the top four or five rounds.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was in 2016. I'm sure we'll talk about it when we do that draft. Yeah, the Bucks used a second round pick on Robert Aguaio, Roberto Aguaio, excuse me, um, who was probably off the team two or three years later. The Niners used a third round pick on Jake Moody in 2023, who's been a good kicker, but like for your third round pick, you really need you really needed a starter with a third-round pick.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you have to be extremely consistent and you know just super productive. And I it I think it's rare that you see that for these kickers that are drafted, um, especially that high. Like you're gonna take somebody in the first three rounds, that can't be a miss because the amount of guys that you're passing on to take a kicker is pretty long.
SPEAKER_00:And obviously you go way back. The the Raiders used a first round pick on Sebastian Janikowski. Seabass was a great kicker, but that was the number 17 pick in the draft.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's uh I just can't even imagine that many teams would pull the trigger on a on a kicker in the first round. That's just seems like not the greatest. He was a draft capital.
SPEAKER_00:And a few years later, the Jets picked Mike Nugent in the second round.
SPEAKER_01:Um, that's right, yeah. Yeah, he was great at Ohio State.
SPEAKER_00:And was a good kicker in the in the NFL, but again.
SPEAKER_01:Just not worth that investment, I feel like.
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_01:Um and then the only other one I have, I think, would be Aaron Jones going to the Packers to pick 182. Um, obviously striking gold there until recently was with the Packers playing for the Minnesota Vikings now. And I don't there's there probably hasn't been a ton of uh skill position players that have popped from UTEP, but uh he you know had a fantastic career. I mean, not you know, not all of fame or anything, but it's been you know one of the league's better backs the last I don't know how many years, and you know, still even you know, as he increases in age, he's still been super productive. So I feel like getting that in um the fifth round, I believe it was you can't you can't beat that production.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. There there were a handful of UDFAs that made teams. Um, I think the most notable is Austin Eckler, um out of Western State, which is uh honestly when I saw that as a school I've never heard of before.
SPEAKER_01:I was gonna say I have no idea where where Western State is.
SPEAKER_00:I couldn't even tell you what state that's in. Kendrick Bourne is still in the league, you know, playing decently well. Taysom Hill is still in the league, is kind of one of the more interesting players uh in the league. And Patrick Patrick Ricard was a UDFA in that draft, who's been um a really nice fullback, which you know that position doesn't really exist anymore. Um, but all of those guys went to small schools, Eastern Washington, Western State, BYU in Maine. And so um I think that's probably gonna be a trend as well. If you're a UDFA and you went to Alabama or something, you're probably not gonna be a very good player. No, exactly. You're on the good UDFAs are gonna be from these small schools where I mean who's scouting Western State? And then Eckler, Eckler's peak was best running back in the league.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he was, I mean, maybe maybe two, three years ago, whatever it was, he was you know up there with like the top like fantasy running backs. He was a guy that everybody always wanted every year for several years in a row, and you know, I think obviously those days are far. I mean, probably not ever gonna be the same after his you know devastating injury they share with Washington, but um still, you know, he's had a great career. I mean, to go from UDFA to obviously cashing in on a decent contract and you know sticking with the Chargers for as long as he did is pretty impressive. Um the only other one I had on my list, and this is you know, selfishly as an Eagles fan, was uh Corey Clement was not a bad uh pickup. He was a UDFA out of Wisconsin running back, kind of a receiving running back, and did end up catching a touchdown in the Super Bowl. Uh Super 152. Um you know, ironically, um, you know, one of the bigger, bigger, you know, going to Wisconsin, obviously no small school, those, so that he was able to stick a little more than obviously, like we said, some of these other guys are western, eastern Washington, Maine. You're not not very many guys coming out of those schools, but um coming out of you know, a couple decent years with the Eagles and then kind of you know fading into obscurity. But you know, when you look at the list of the UDFAs that year, there's not very many that, you know, stuck at all or that you really have heard of. So, you know, to get to get a moment like that on a big stage is uh is pretty cool for a guy like that.
SPEAKER_00:Um I think it's worth worth noting because one of the sort of underrated players, and we didn't really talk about him, and uh I don't know that we need to go into a lot of depth on him. Alex Anzaloni was drafted by the Saints in the third round and was kind of unremarkable with the Saints and then got got pretty good with the Lions, and he's the starting linebacker now for the Lions, which got me down the rabbit hole. I think it's worth giving the Saints their props on this. Um I don't know if you looked at the draft card of the Saints. But this might be the greatest draft class in history, and we'll see. Um they had seven picks in that draft, and they drafted Marshawn Lattimore in the first round, who was the following year's defensive rookie of the year. Great pick. Uh Ryan Ramchuk at the end of that first round, who started tackle for them for eight years or something. And I think he tore his Achilles at the end of that eighth year and was never really the same again, but was a really productive offensive tackle for them. They picked Marcus Williams in the second round, who was a free safety out of Utah. Really strong player, played a lot of years. You know, his second contract, he's he signed like a$70 million contract with his second contract. Um and again, I think he got injured uh towards the end of that contract and and didn't uh do too well. Um three third-round picks, Alvin Kamara, Alex Anzaloni, and Trey Hendrickson, which I mean, those are three home run picks.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, like yeah, three star players like him. You can't have a more perfect round than that.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And then they picked Al Qadin Muhammad in the sixth round. Um they didn't have a fourth, fifth, or seventh that year. Um, but he he played for them for a while, but now um uh is the starting you know defensive end for the Lions opposite opposite eight and hunches. And so uh I think it's interesting to note, you know, two of those guys now play on Detroit's defense. Uh Sean Payton was the head coach of the Saints that year, but you you know who the assistant head coach was of that team. It was Dan Campbell. And the secondary coach on that team was Aaron Glenn. And so those guys saw those players, first of all, clearly have an eye for talent because the Lions are one of the and we'll get to this when we talk about like the 2023 and 2024 draft classes. Like they're one of the best drafting front front offices that there is. Without a doubt. Uh but Dan and Aaron clearly saw these guys play, and and Dan is, I think, more of an offensive coach than he is uh a defensive coach, but you know, he's the coach of the tight ends on that team and was the assistant head coach and calls the plays for the Lions now. But they clearly saw what they liked out of those players. And either the Saints just weren't getting everything out of them that they could or what have you, but they they clearly knew there was a scheme that would fit with those players. And now, I mean Al Qadin Muhammad is has like six sacks and gets tons of great looks because he's playing opposite of maybe the best defensive end in the in the league. Um so two two pieces of that defense came from that from that insane Saints draft class, which again, no Hall of Famers there. Well, maybe Trey Hendrickson has a chance if he continues to put up 15 sacks a year.
SPEAKER_01:Um but still to get that type of production from that.
SPEAKER_00:To hit on all seven of their picks I thought was uh remarkable. Um I think the Steelers also had a pretty good draft that year. They picked Watt, obviously, who we've talked about already, and Juju Smith Schuster, and James Conner, and Josh Dobbs. Like that's four very productive players.
SPEAKER_01:No, that's true. I just I uh definitely didn't dive that deep into the Saints, and that's I mean, that third round.
SPEAKER_00:I just got there because I saw Anzalone and and and he got picked up later. Uh and so I was like diving deeper into his career, and then that got me to the draft class of the Saints, um, which it was just remarkable that they were able to make that many great picks. Uh I think that's what's interesting about the draft. Like everybody has the same information, but clearly some teams are just better, and sometimes it's position specific, like they're great at drafting quarterbacks or drafting running backs or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Like teams are just yeah, some are just better at devout developing certain positions for whatever reason, and you know, some teams shy away from certain ones, like was the running joke until this year. That the Green Bay Packers never took a wide receiver in the first round until they took Matthew Golden this year. Like it just you know, the certain teams that don't draft certain positions well or don't develop the talent well, and some that that do. Um, so I think as we go more into this, that's gonna be interesting to see kind of you know, if there's players that you know were drafted by a certain team in the first round, maybe didn't have that success there, but go somewhere else and you know, kind of figure it out and you know, go on to have a good career. I think that'll be pretty intriguing to see.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. All right, so let's uh let's wrap it up here. What what do you think of the what would you say all uh overall from the 2017 NFL draft? Was it a a decent one, a bad one, a great one? Obviously it has some some high-end talent.
SPEAKER_01:I would say I don't know if I'd say it was an all-time draft, but it's definitely up there, definitely above average. I mean, you you know, the number one pick was hit on. You got three, you know, perennial superstar, you know, tops at their position, arguably, um, and Mahomes, McCaffrey and Garrett. Um, you know, aside from Trubisky and maybe Salman Thomas at number two, uh, and well, John Ross as well. Um, the majority of the top ten was pretty solid, um, even besides uh Garrett, McCaffrey, and Mahomes. And then throughout the you know, first round you had uh these you know guys that are still hanging around in the league, you know, Evan Ingram, Jabril Peppers, Marlon Humphrey, Adore Jackson, like you know, productive players. Um I do think um certainly were a lot of misses, and that's always gonna happen. But uh I would say this was probably an above-average draft, maybe not an all-timer, but um when you have a guy like Pat Mahomes going with that kind of a value, and you know, those three guys in the top ten, it's you know gonna elevate any draft. And I think this was a good one for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, there's five probably five Hall of Famers in this draft, at least with Mahomes, McCaffrey, Garrett, Watt, and Kittle. And I think I think Trey Hendrickson has an outside chance of getting there. It's hard to get in at the defensive end, but the sack totals have been so inflated. Um it's kind of hard to get in there just on the uh just on the stats alone. But that you know anytime you have five Hall of Famers in a draft, it's got to be a good one. Absolutely wondering your thoughts on Mahomes. If he had been drafted by a different team, would he have still turned out to be as good?
SPEAKER_01:That's interesting. I mean, uh, I feel like that's always an interesting game to play if you look at you know teams around that, if you know um around where the Chiefs were picking, since they did trade up for him. Um, you know, does he have the kind of same success? Like, do the Texans take him instead of taking Deshaun Watson? That's interesting to think about. Um, you know, uh I think I think the talent of Mahomes probably would have excelled anywhere. Um but you also got him under the tutelage of Andy Reid, who is an offensive guru and has been for decades. I think that certainly helped him a lot. Um so I think he still would be, I don't know if he'd be as elite as he is, but I I do think Mahomes still would have been a above average quarterback, even if he would have landed, you know, somewhere maybe not as exciting as the Chiefs that, you know, kind of ended up having these great offenses, and you know, he was under a good coaching staff.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I I think his elite skill is his decision making. I don't think it's I mean he's a good running quarterback, like he can run. He runs he's actually running more this year than he has uh any of his previous years, I think. Um he's got a good arm, but not like he's not a guy like Jamarcus Russell who can throw at 80 yards from his knees or something. He's got a very good arm. Um I think his decision-making speed and skill is what makes him elite. And so I think that's that probably would translate anywhere else. You know, he's not in a system that's you know focused on just harnessing his running skill or something like a Michael Vick kind of player that redesigned the whole system around his ability to run. And if you don't have that kind of offensive line that can pull and run, like then it it just doesn't translate. I think he he definitely would have translated uh somewhere else.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't know if it would be at you know at that level that he's at now, but I think um, you know, we've seen over the years the Chiefs, you know, like to use the he uses those shovel passes around the goal line, has made a name for himself doing that. Um he said that the quick decision making is definitely what makes him elite as far as um what he's able to do. And I I just think that once, you know, being in a system like that, it certainly did him a lot of favors. And you know, if he lands with a jets or something like that, like is he gonna be as elite? Like, probably not, because the talent is not there, and you know the amount of times you know teams like that have missed on picks to kind of surround him with talent maybe wouldn't have you know afforded him the opportunities that he's had, but he he's he's just incredible to watch and you know definitely gotta be the star of this draft. Probably him or Garrett probably won. Any any of the three, really. You can't you can't go wrong. I mean, three Hall of Famers already. I think it's you can't really dispute that.
SPEAKER_00:So all right, so Chris, why don't you um why don't you preview for us what's coming up on the next episode?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so we're gonna, like we said, gonna you know try to bounce back and forth uh between the NFL and NBA since we both you know do find both sports very interesting in the draft realm. I think um, you know our knowledge probably is kind of capped in that like mid to late 80s. Um obviously I'm sure we'll get to the Michael Jordan draft at some point because we have to. Um but next week we're gonna dive into the uh 2003 NBA draft, which uh obviously was you know LeBron James going first overall, spoiler alert. Um and but there was a lot of talent in that. Um top five, one very intriguing bust. Um and you know, overall I think that's a very that'll be a very fun one to get into. There was, you know, there definitely were a good amount of busts, but some very high-end, you know, all-time talent. So we'll dive into the 2003 one next week, and uh that'll be our first NBA episode.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean I remember that time I would have been um just graduating polisher and then and the the the buzz around LeBron Um was unlike any I had seen before a draft, certainly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, never. Absolutely. I mean his his games were on ESP his high school games being on ESPN and all that um were you know something that was never seen before. And I think uh there's so much talent there, and that's gonna be a fun one to get into. I can't wait to dive into that one.
SPEAKER_00:All right. Well, thanks everybody for listening to our first episode, episode uh one. Obviously, we did episode zero as just a small little teaser. If uh for some reason one of the dozens of people that will ultimately listen to this wants to contact the show, you can email us at uh podcast at backdraftpodcast.com. Um Chris, where where can they reach us on socials?
SPEAKER_01:We yep, we uh also have a Twitter account for the podcast. It's just bat at Backdraft Pod. Uh you can shoot us a DM, shoot us a mention, and um anything like you want us to talk about from a particular draft that we're doing coming up, or just any, you know, want to get your thoughts on you know what we thought of said draft that we just dissected, you can uh reach us over there or email us.
SPEAKER_00:And wherever you consume your podcast, please give us uh a like, a subscribe.
SPEAKER_01:Five stars, please.
SPEAKER_00:Five stars, please. We don't have uh we don't have any sponsors. I'm sure they're gonna start knocking down the door after this first episode.
SPEAKER_01:I think I hear them. I can see it in the distance for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Well, um uh until next time. Uh Chris, any parting any parting words?
SPEAKER_01:Uh nope, just excited to get into this and you know keep alternating between these drafts, and uh it's gonna be an absolute blast to uh you know pull up a chair and uh break down some of these ridiculous picks.
SPEAKER_00:All right. Until next time, everybody. See ya. See ya.
